Emmanuel Jime is a member of the House of Representatives on the platform of the APC. The Benue–born lawmaker stirred controversy in the House recently when he moved a point of order which temporarily stalled the debate on the 2014 budget. In this interview with AYODELE ADEGBUYI, Jime speaks more on why he did what he did and also provides an insight into his governorship ambition in 2015, among other issues
My point of order on 2014 budget
My decision with regard to the budget discussion was consistent with the provisions of our laws. So far as I can remember, no one who has taken up issues with my position has questioned the legality of the position that we alluded to, as to whether or not there was a breach of the law. Therefore, if we can settle the question about the legality of the provisions which were breached and if we can settle the issue that really the law was breached, then I will prefer that people may wish to focus on the breach of our law and discuss that extensively.
Of course, the provision of the Fiscal Responsibility Act says at Section 21 (1,2,3), clearly stipulates what needs to be done when a budget is to be presented to the National Assembly; particularly, sub-section 3, which emphasises that the budget estimates of all the federal government corporations – the NNPC, the CBN, Nigeria Ports Authority, all of those corporations that in any case, are money making agencies of the federal government; their estimates. In other words, their budgets as were submitted to the minister of finance must accompany the estimates of the budget to be laid before the National Assembly.
That is the law. Clearly, from what has been presented to us, there is no dispute that what the minister of finance presented to us was not the estimates that were submitted to her by those corporations. But they are all summary. My point is, under our laws, the minister has no powers to then summarise those estimates. If the law had wanted the minister to summarize, the law will say so clearly. This is the issue. That for me, formed the kernel of the point of order that I raised. And I thank the Honourable Speaker, who decided, in his wisdom, to constitute a House committee, that is responsible in more ways than one, for advising us on legal issues when they have been made clear.
I believe most of the arguments that seem to have trailed this is really more about a supposed directive that was given to members of the APC, that we should stall budget processes. I will now like to address the question of whether what I did, was strictly in obedience to the directive of the APC. I want people to remember that when I was a member of the PDP, it (the PDP) gave instructions that we should elect Hon. Mulikat Akande-Adeola, the House Leader today, as Speaker of the House.
But I , standing on the side of history and the people, decided that in the interest of the independence of the legislature, that we should be allowed to elect our own leadership that would be responsible to the membership of the House without having to take instructions from somewhere outside of the chamber. I made that point to establish clearly that in my dear name and my understanding of my responsibility as a legislator, once you get elected and you take the oath, you are no longer beholden to a political party. You are, indeed, the property of Nigeria. So, whatever decisions you take are decisions that you can explain in due conscience when questions are asked of you.
I have never in all of my political career done something because I was directed by a political party to do so. Make no mistake about it, I am not saying that party instructions are not necessary for the vibrancy of democracy. The APC, in its wisdom, had decided that the impunity with which the executive arm of government has carried out its duties in this country must be called to order. An example was set about the impunity that has been going on unabated in Rivers State. That co-incidence of the party instruction and the breach of our laws, I think, is what people are now completely misunderstanding to mean that we are grand-standing on behalf of the APC. I think the question that Nigerians should be asking the executive, not me, is that we have been passing budgets from 1999 till now, what impact have they made?
Why the eyebrow now?
If you ask me, the fact that you do some things the wrong way all the time means that you should continue to the same things the wrong way, even when you now have discovered that you have been doing things the wrong way. Another thing is that when I made my submissions on the floor of the House, one of the areas that I pointed out to was to remind us about the incidence of this $10.8 billion that is said to be missing in the NNPC. And I said to my colleagues, that perhaps in 2013 if the budget estimates of the NNPC had been submitted to the National Assembly, maybe we would have been in a position to have been able to call NNPC to order and to ask questions about it. How can you, in all due conscience, conduct an oversight over an estimate, that in the first place, you have no hand in approving.
Why approve the 2013 budget, because we had no full details; but we went ahead and passed it, we were now confronted with a fait accompli. Now, we are, as a parliament, unable to tell Nigerians why $10.8 billion is said to be missing in the coffers of the NNPC. The day that the legislature fails to hold the executive arm of government to account, what we are going to enthrone in this nation will be anarchy beyond redemption. People are used to seeing the executive and the judiciary. Every time there is a military coup, it is the parliament that goes. So, for too long, the National Assembly is the one arm of government that is undeveloped in its capacity.
When we don’t do what is due to us, we are condemned. When you also stand up, in recognition of the full powers of that arm of government; and deploy it to the full services of Nigerians, you are condemned. Let us not be deceived. The executive arm of government is only too happy when this blackmail is visited on the National Assembly. That is the only way they can ride roughshod over the Nigerian people and do and get away with a lot of things they have been getting away with any way.
And what led to change of mind even when the estimates were yet to be forwarded by the minister?
Femi(Gbajabiamila) speaks as leader of APC. I think it is his duty to do the politics of the APC. I am a member of APC . I am not its leader. So, I see things from the perspective of a member of the APC, who has been elected to do the duty of the members of his constituency. Any day that I am satisfied that the due process of the law has been followed, even if there is an instruction, I am not likely to comply with that instruction. My point in this case, was there is and there was a breach of the law.
And it was very simple. Even on that very day, if the chairman of the Appropriation committee had asked for the matter to be stepped down so that he could go back and bring us the details of the budget, we would have continued with the budget discussion that day.
So, my take is that we have good information available to us that the details have been provided. And that, from my angle, was the only reason why I saw an issue with it. Therefore, I concurred that there is basis for us to proceed with the discussion on the budget.
That been said, if on account of what we did, which as I said really have no direct bearing with an instruction that was given anywhere, somebody, somewhere has woken up to the realisation that we should start calling ourselves to order; and we should reduce the incident of impunity in the country.
Halleluya! If Mbu, has been removed, congratulations. As far as I am concerned it was a little bit late in coming. But it is a welcome development. And I hope, that means, going forward, we would have less and less incidences of executive rascality and impunity.
Your take on the legality of the Excess Crude Account (ECA)
The ECA is constituted by a law of parliament that has been passed by the National Assembly. That is my understanding. So far as I know, that law has not been challenged or if it has been challenged, it has not been struck out by any law court. So, to the extent that it is the law of the land, I don’t think there is any dispute on that issue.
For now, this (question of legality) is one thing that we should not be discussing. My personal view, if you don’t mind, is that I truly believe that we ought to have savings in this country. When the National Assembly considers the budget, there is usually a benchmark. There is no way, as I understand it, that we would come below the benchmark to the extent that we would throw the whole proposal into deficit. So far, as we are hitting this price regime that overshoots the benchmark, it means clearly that there is some money that has not been appropriated for. That is the money that I understand goes into the ECA.
Do you have governorship ambition in 2015
Governance has to do with the particular body make-up of the leader, his mind set, his vision, particularly, where you are headed , where you want to take your nation or state. As the case may be, I am clear headed about Benue State and where the state should be four years from now. One of the things that I think are critical to the development of democracy in Benue State is to appreciate that we have only one resource, and that is agriculture. Benue state is not, unfortunately, an oil producing state. In addition to agriculture, our focus must be on education.
When I went to school in my own time, we were told that the only factory that was thriving then was the production of youths through schools. Education was considered the most critical element in development. There are also other parts of the world where you don’t have any other resource apart from human capital. Singapore is the best example. They were in the third world as you know. But today, Singapore is in the first world. What did they do? Their emphasis is on education and they make sure that every single Singaporean was given high quality education. And because of what they have , they now have been able to translate that human development of their people to national development.
For me too, the emphasis must be the human capital development of our people, to make sure that the quality of education that our kids are receiving is second to none in this country. I will also want to enable, as much as possible, that the youths of our state are given the best tools they can be able to get, in terms of the quality of education that they can be able to get. I have done so much to advance the course of education of our people. The evidence is there if I should be privileged to be of service at the level of governor. Agriculture is my main focus. Benue is called the food basket of the nation.
I believe truly that with the fertile land that we have, if we encourage commercial agriculture, there is no reason why this country should be importing rice. I am ashamed that today that there are states that are less endowed, Kogi state for example, touting itself as the number one in rice production. That I think is an embarrassment to Benue state, because we have even more fertile land that can grow rice than Kogi state. We will encourage the private sector to get involved in agriculture. Government alone won’t go into agriculture. We will incentivise to take over commercial agriculture and stand beside and support their efforts.
What you need to do as a government is to prop up and provide the infrastructure that is required. There is so much wastage of fruits in Benue state. There is no reason why we should not have a fruit factory in Benue state that produces fruit juices that can be sold everywhere in the country and even beyond as well. But what is happening right now is that because of the road infrastructure leading into our rural areas, people are not able to bring up their fruits to the market places and be able to sell them. We locate high quality schools in the rural areas so that those farmers and their kids need not gravitate to the cities. So, we are talking electricity, good clean water… When you do these, you are guaranteeing the welfare of most of the citizens.
The greatest problem that is confronting Benue State, especially my constituency, is the conflict between farmers and Fulani herdsmen over grazing areas. One of the reasons why it is impossible to deal with the situation is, the ability of security response is greatly hampered and hindered. If there is a breakdown of law and order 30 kilometers away from Makurdi, I can tell you that it almost impossible for the police in Makurdi to get the place at short notice. So, there is a security component to this dimension also. Agriculture can create jobs. It is the greatest employer of labour in this country everybody knows. These are things that have not been done in Benue state. .
All I can say for now is that I have received a lot of goodwill. There is excitement, especially among the youths of Benue around the project. There is a movement that has started. I am happy to be a participant in it. If the people should decide I will be too glad to offer myself as the anchor of the movement.
Chances of winning
I believe we have very good opportunity. There is an enabling environment at home. Benue state has had its fair share of tribulations. I think it is fair to say that it is one of the most impoverished states in the country at the moment. The people are anxious to be pulled out of the poverty level that they are in at the moment.. So, if you ask me my chances with the elite, I cannot be able to say, with some authority. But if you ask me my chances with the poor of the poor, those who have been deprived of any means of decent livelihood, and those who appreciate good service; and those who are hopeful that perhaps better days are ahead in our state; then the great majority of our people; the ones for which this movement is about, then you may just be talking to the next governor of Benue state.