Senator Ahmed Aliyu Wadada, the Chairman Senate Committee on Public Accounts, represents Nasarawa West senatorial district at the 10th Senate. In this interview with AHMID LAWAL in Abuja, he bares his mind on the contentious tax reform bill, insecurity and other issues. Excerpts:
Sir, it’s a period of festivities, especially, with the Christmas and New Year. What do you have to say to Nigerians moving forward?
While I say a very good afternoon to us all, I wish you merry Christmas and happy New Year in advance. For the period that we are in, as I wish the people the blessings of this period to be showered upon all of us, I alongside, call on us to remember to reflect, as Christmas period is not just for celebration. And the celebration that is expected and accepted in such a period is not the one that we go to drum and dance, no. This is a period of sober reflection. You reflect and see where you were wrong yesterday. Now that the blessed period is at hand, what and what you need to drop from your excesses and what are the good things you have brought from your previous years or yesterday to move along with them.
The celebration is not supposed to be only wining and dining with relations, friends and neighbours and what have you. But we attach so much importance to the celebration that even the spiritual message is forgotten. Leaders don’t keep quiet, if Christ had kept quiet, there wouldn’t have been Christmas. If Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, had kept quiet those that had gone to the mosque about an hour ago would not have gone and that is why Wadada will always talk because I am a leader. Let us reflect. When and if we reflect on the teachings, ethics and tenets of our religions, our society will be better and I hope we shall all be track and all hands must be on deck to better humanity – that is the message.
In a few days from now, 2024 would be over and the new year 2025 will be ushered in, looking back at 2024, what can you say were the highpoints of your legislative functions vis-a-vis the responsibility of the National Assembly as a whole and the administration of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, considering what had transpired in the past year moving forward?
Thank you very much. As far as I am concerned, as a sitting legislator within the legislature confined to the 10th Senate or 10th Assembly, nothing happened that was new to me. But things happened that were new because changes are bound to happen in life. The 10th Senate started with rancour and wranglings, struggles for the stewardship or leadership of the Senate. It looked at that time as if the Senate was going to be torn into pieces. It came and it stands because the leadership eventually emerged with a bit of challenges. Nigerians were really worried and wondering how the 10th Senate was going to roll on but we were quick, swift enough to have reunited ourselves; kept the differences aside and set the Senate rolling. Having set the Senate rolling, we were challenged within the confines of the discharge of our duties. The 2023 supplementary budget was lingering as the new government wanted much more than it met in the coffers to set the entire machinary of government and governance rolling. Then again, the main budget of 2024 had to be presented which also came with its challenges followed by another supplementary budget.
Nigerians were now getting much deeper into confusion. What the hell is going on here? We had that lingering, we are still talking about the supplementary budget. We had to go all out to make Nigerians understand the dynamics or the dynamism that led to the dynamics of how it had to happen the way it happened. Over and above all, a new Sheriff got into town, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, who sees it, who pushes it, who knows it. But he is not a perfect human being. He has got his weaknesses like everyone of us here but he cares for the people and he is concerned about the people. But where you are coming from must be a determinant or a catalyst or the ingredient that you will need to either drive you, convey you or deliver you to your destination because nobody, today, can tell me that the Nigeria project is not confronted with a lot of challenges. There are challenges, some of the challenges are possibly about what were supposed to be done which had not been done. Or what are supposed to be done that are not really done or what had been done were contrary to the expectations of the people. People are used to statue quo and you know; change is one of the most highly resisted activity in life President Bola Ahmed Tinubu is a grounded politician who has come to face the problems of Nigeria the way they should be faced.
He could make mistakes along the line, he is not an angel, he is a human being. There had been issues for instance around subsidy, subsidy should go, subsidy not to go. President Ahmed Tinubu having seen the pros and cons from subsidy within and outside, decided to say, it has gone and must remain gone. Of course, the removal of subsidy means inflicting some pains on the citizenry but are the pains going to be forever? Between the removal of subsidy and the transient or temporary inflicting pains on the citizenry which one is better? He now said; inflicting the pains is better because we can provide some palliatives to take care of the pains against when the full realisation or the full benefits of subsidy removal will get to the citizenry. Palliatives were put across all the states in various forms. We are still transiting on that and then he came up to say with the much I intend to do for Nigeria where will the money come from? Additional pains because taxes must be increased, subsidy removal and increase in taxes all on the citizens of Nigeria. The average common man is languishing in poverty. Now the best thing is we will increase corporate taxes. Let’s charge the corporate bodies to pay much more than they have been paying and reduce the taxes of the average common man. That is why a threshold is put between the lowest tax payers and the corporate bodies so as to ease the pains of the common man. This culminated to the introduction of tax reforms bill. The controversial tax reforms bill
The Northern governors and lawmakers from the north had taken a stand on the issue of Value Added Tax (VAT) which President Bola Ahmed Tinubu had given concession to give and take as far as the issue of VAT is concerned. Will that now placate the leaders from the North on the new tax reforms?
I have nothing to say there, I didn’t introduce the tax reforms bill, he introduced the tax reforms bill, NEC sat on it, northern governors sat about it, senators sat about it, Northern Senators sat about it and then that led to it. Because he is a listening leader, when he saw what was happening, he then said the Attorney-General should sit with the senators to see those grey areas and do the needful on them. That is where we are up to the time we went on break and now in the media chat he had, I haven’t listened to it. He must have thrown some light, I guess, deducing from what you have just said. As ambiguous, as controversial as that bill is, my understanding might be different from your own understanding and vice versa – so, now you said he has thrown more light. It is for you to be convinced on the light or not to be convinced. We will cross the bridge when we get to it.
On a personal note, as a Senator from the Northern part of the country, what is your personal opinion on the tax reforms bill?
First and foremost, no Northerner should be afraid of tax or taxes. w
We set the pace in this country through community taxes, cattle tax. Some citizens of this country were educated with that. We were ahead of everybody. We were paying taxes when other citizens of Nigeria were not paying taxes because the Southern part of Nigeria had no cattle tax or community tax. We set the pace. We are not afraid of the tax reforms because so long as we desire the much we want from government, it cannot happen without the needed level of resources been gotten. But it is not to inflict pain on anybody. My understanding of the tax reforms is that it is a fantastic document because the world today is a global village. Nigeria cannot live in isolation. But you as a Christian if you are allowed, you may come publicly, you may because there are some provisions in the Bible that are detrimental to you if you want to experiment some social activities. So if the Bible provisions could be a bit uncomfortable to you, what makes the tax reforms document a perfect document because it is put together by imperfect human beings.
The most controversial and ambiguous aspect of the tax reforms bill is the VAT aspect of it and my understanding of it, rightly or wrongly, is that the President envisages fairness as he packages it, as he portrays it based on what is contained in the document. But the practicability of it is the difficult aspect of the value added tax. If VAT is value added tax, what is the matter at stake? VAT is consumption tax. What part of the country has the highest population, the North. So we have VAT because we consume more than any other part of the country. So, according to the document, the President said, but I have not sat with the President one on one so whatever I say here is confined to my understanding of the document.
So, why should Lagos alone and what had been the sharing formula 35-50-15? if I am right Federal Government takes 35, state government takes 50 and local government 15 which gives you 100. But because the headquarters of majority of these corporate bodies are in Lagos, so Lagos takes the highest of this 50 percent going to states. Because, they are all registered in Lagos and the corporate bodies that pay the highest value added tax in Nigeria are MTN and Dangote Group. Aliko Dangote is a Kano man and his company as a corporate body was not registered in Kano but in Lagos so the greater percentage of the VAT goes to Lagos. So the President is saying why should it be so. Let VAT be determined by derivation or consumption.
Let MTN number of recharge cards being bought by indigenes of Nasarawa state in a month and the number of calls made by indigenes of Nasarawa state in a month be paid directly to Nasarawa. But the issue is that, where is the infrastructure that will be use to determine that by itself? It is still going to be determined by the headquarters of MTN in Lagos based on human tendency. These are the areas that are yet to be cleared. So, consultations, permit me to say, I don’t think in anyway at all President Bola Ahmed Tinubu administration mean bad to any part of Nigeria. But when you are introducing something new to the people, there must be deeper or wider consultation. What is happening between the Attorney-General of the Federation and the legislators should have happened before introducing the tax reforms bill. But it’s either the egg before the chicken or the chicken before the egg. But the ultimate is that we shall consume both the egg and also the chicken and so let’s open up our minds. If Asiwaju Ahmed Bola Tinubu is truly, I am not his spokesperson, but I am the spokesperson of my people of Nasarawa West senatorial district, I will always say it the way it is to the best of my knowledge. If President Bola Ahmed Tinubu truly as wrongly conveyed by some people is detrimental or is out to be against the North; there are things also happening in the North that credit should be given to him. The last administration awarded contract for the Abuja-Kaduna-Kano road which wasn’t completed up till the time the administration left office. In the history of Nigeria, never was any project revoked from Julius Berger. But Asiwaju revoked that contract from Julius Berger.
The contract was re-awarded to a different company for Abuja to Kaduna to be a reality. The AKK, the Ajaokuta-Kaduna-Kano gas pipeline is on. Sokoto-Badagri superhighway was conceptualised during President Shagari but President Bola Ahmed Tinubu turned it around to start from Sokoto to Badagri. Within that stretch, there are about 40 dams that are not put into full utilisation. The idea is to open that corridor so that these dams can be better utilised for irrigation programmes and what have you. On that stretch, recently, he was in Brazil and some understanding were signed on livestock. If that road is constructed, silos would also be constructed within that corridor at various points so that what is being obtained today, with cattle being conveyed from Sokoto to Lagos, Port Harcourt, with vehicles breaking down along the road that will all stop. There will be ranches. Brazilians will come in partnership with Nigeria to establish ranches in that corridor. Even with that, will such a person be against the North? Let’s see, I think anybody that comes to fight the North, the North has the requisite capacity to fight back. We will always fight for our people. But me, I wouldn’t be carried away by street talk, I will always talk based on my understanding of the situation. And the Governor of Nasarawa state, Engineer Abdullahi A. Sule was democratic enough, he called us as National Assembly caucus from Nasarawa state for a meeting and we are on the same page for what is good for the country and the north. Since it is for the country, let’s make amend to make it good for all. Nigeria is for everybody and what is good for the North and not good for the country, let’s make amend for it to be good for the country and the North as well so long we are a people. We must cater for each other. In a nutshell, this is just the little I can say about this as events unfold, the needful will always be done at various check points. Who are the commanders of the check points, you journalists.
With this detailed explanation, if you go into the North, with what you said which is lack of due consultation, the general opinion in the North is that insisting on the tax reforms would threaten President Tinubu’s second tenure. Do you share this same view?
Well, I don’t know. You see, life is dynamic, if because of the tax reforms bill, we are quick to pass judgement on 2027, we may be wrong. What if before 2025 he introduces something that the entire North jumps into it? I don’t want to go to 2027, let’s confine ourselves to now. As far as the administration of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu is concerned, my dear Nigerians, I have this to say and I will take from the quote of our famous Comrade Balarabe Musa second republic governor of Kaduna state and I quote, “We are today living in times of great changes, the old orders are crumbling fast, while new systems of life and activities are emerging. Our task is to understand these changes and utilise them for human progress”. The link is that President Bola Ahmed Tinubu is today the President of Nigeria and he is introducing some unprecedented and unexpected changes and these changes are rolling out the old orders, introducing new orders and contemporariness in governance. Our task is to understand these changes and utilise them for the betterment of Nigeria.
As a Senator, you will realise that the issue of Boko Haram in the North East is gradually fading out but that a new trend is the rising in the guise of the Lakurawa. How do you think this emerging trend could be tackled?
What is the reason behind the disappearance of Boko Haram? Commitment of government to and in tackling insecurity. It is facing it head-on and it is clearly seen in the last budget presentation defense and how security got about five trillion naira (N5trillion). It is one thing to allocate as much as has been allocated. Implementation is key, insecurity cannot be divorced from poverty. You cannot fight insecurity if citizens are in poverty, hunger. A hungry man is a angry man and he can easily be indoctrinated, he can easily be convinced, he can easily be led away. This administration is facing it head-on. Lakurawa- insurgency and insecurity is a global thing and because the world is a global village, Keffi is linked to Nasarawa, Nasarawa is linked to Toto, Toto is linked to FCT, FCT is linked to Kaduna, Kaduna is linked to Plateau, to Bauchi, Bauchi to you know; is like what you guys call vicious circle. You start the movement from a point then you go round and you come back to the same point. The crisis in Libya, the crisis in Chad, the crisis in Sudan all over the world Ukraine, Russia are all ingredients to insecurity in Nigeria. It is for our government to face it head on by fully equipping, utilising and asserting authority on those that have the responsibility on one side and on the other side provide the enabling environment for private sector to thrive.
All over the world, private sector is the number one provider of employment. We have army of youths educated, able, capable , knowledgeable, yet nothing doing. If the system is being harnessed, it will be able to engage 50 percent of our teeming youths. Automatically, insecurity is 50 percent defeated. And the security agencies that are saddled with the responsibility is well funded and the government is assertive and the National Assembly is also assertive in the discharge of it’s responsibilities to call a spade a spade all these will be dealt away with. Like President of the Senate said during the budget presentation that the President should talk to his ministers to be responsive to the invitation calls of the National Assembly members, I commend him but I feel that was not necessary because we have the Constitution that has empowered us. If we can invite, we are empowered to invite Mr. President; who are you, sitting on an appointment and I am sitting on mandate. Any minister or head of any agency that is needed by the National Assembly and he is invited respectfully through the process and the procedure that had been laid down by the Constitution and our rules of engagements, and the person feels he is too big, we will invoke the provisions of the Constitution, issue warrant of arrest, arrest the person, bring him to order. The people of Nasarawa state have given me four years mandate and within the four-walls of that Senate Chamber, I have immunity to say anything and I am not taking anybody for granted including appointees who can be discharged tomorrow, they must be responsive.
Your posters are all over the state, do you have the intention to contest for the governorship of Nasarawa state?
I had the intention from my birth and I declared my intention in 2019 and I did not just declared my intention, I participated I played the role that I played. Today, God in his infinite mercy had put it in much clearer terms that I am most qualified for it and other people too are most qualified for it too. It is left for the citizens of the state when the time comes to put all of us on the table based on where we are all coming from. Analyse the records, sieve the records and decide. I am by the grace of God gunning for the governorship of Nasarawa state come 2027. Based on his mercies on me, I have all it takes to be governor of Nasarawa state.
