Although he agreed with the general principles of the anti open grazing law, former Minister of Interior, Comrade Abba Morro however took exception with the haste with which Governor Samuel Ortom started implementing the law in Benue state, without giving herders enough time to build ranches or change business. In this interview with BODE OLAGOKE, the ex minister spoke about the fatal recruitment of into the Nigerian Immigration Service, Ortom’s inability to pay workers’ salaries and execute any project in Benue state.
You have been rather quiet since leaving office in 2015, why are you keeping a low profile politically?
It has been a very difficult period, it has not been easy, settling down after office has been a very difficult moment. But again, I have always insisted that I live my life by the day. I didn’t change dramatically when I assumed office and so out of office, I think I also didn’t change. I think I feel fulfilled because of my attitude to life of not allowing the office to get into my head. It has not been a bed of roses but I try to cope and hopefully I think things can get better.
You still feel fulfilled despite what you faced after serving under President Goodluck Jonathan?
Well, again, I wasn’t surprised because, you know while I was in the office, one of my lowest points was the tragedy that accompanied the Nigerian Immigration Service recruitment exercise. Unfortunately for me, mischief makers had manufactured lies and planted in the minds of Nigerians and so as far as they are concerned, I was guilty. I am happy that the matter is in the court now and very hopefully, Nigerians will get to know the truth because I didn’t set out for the exercise to fail, I didn’t set out to make money out of that exercise. I cancelled the previous exercise that was criticised by Nigerians as irregular and one that was anchored on extortion of money from poor Nigerians. I cancelled the exercise and I promised Nigerians that I was going to enthrone a more transparent and cost effective arrangement for that recruitment exercise which I did. But unfortunately, certain elements within the system plotted for it not to succeed and I didn’t know about it and so the result of that exercise, like I keep saying, did not meet the results we expected.
Do you regret serving under President Jonathan, given the unsavory revelations that are being uncovered ?
Looking back today, if I have the opportunity serving under Jonathan, I will serve again.
Some Nigerians are saying that even the All Progressives Congress(APC) that promised change has not delivered the expected change. The government has spent more than two years in office, can you assess the Buhari administration?
Well, the time for serious comparison is not here. The APC government is still on the throne, it is still on seat and working. So, I believe very sincerely that President Buhari and leaders of APC were elected for the tenure of four years.
I will reserve my comments about their performances especially those that directly affect my life and the life of Nigerians now until after they have exhausted their four years in office. At that point, we would be in a better position to compare, because if we are talking about the administration of Buhari and that of Jonathan now, where do we start from? Is it Jonathan’s two years as president or Jonathan’s five years as president or Jonathan’s six years as president? Can you compare that administration with Buhari’s two years as president or one year as president.
So, ordinarily, I would want to reserve my comments about that. I participated in Jonathan’s administration, I was part of it and I am watching Buhari’s administration. As a student of history, at the appropriate time, I am going to comment on that.
But let me say, if you are talking about corruption, corruption in Nigeria is an endemic problem and an albatross to our development process. Everybody knows about this, and so, those who are claiming to be angels now should know that the days of reckoning will come when everybody will give account of himself.
If you have budgeted N1trn for power for instance, and if at the end of your tenure, electricity supply and distribution still remain as epileptic as it has ever been, then somebody is going to ask you questions; where has the N1trn gone to? That’s the point I am making. But I can tell you that nobody can wish away the fact that, right now, in Nigeria, government officials have perpetrated one act of corruption or the other.
But can you assess Governor Samuel Ortom of your home Benue state?
Looking at Benue state under Governor Samuel Ortom, I can say, without prejudice, that since the creation of the state, this administration is one of the most monumental failures that we have ever had. Benue state at this moment is tilting towards complete collapse. Benue state under Samuel Ortom, quite frankly and I am not talking politics here, has completely failed the people. As I am talking to you now, very many Benue public servants have not been paid for upwards of twelve months.
Some sectors have not been paid for upwards of seven months and that is the least that have not been paid.
As I am talking to you now, Benue people have kept the records of all the monies that have accrued to the state under this present administration and they have come to the conclusion that they don’t have any business with poverty and non-payment of salaries. And when you look at it from the perspective of even infrastructural developments, it is most saddening to note that up till this moment that I am talking to you, the government cannot boast that they have constructed or executed any meaningful project.
Recently, I have had cause to challenge the governor to invite the President like other governors are doing, to his state. President Buhari, as I am talking to you now, is in Ebonyi state commissioning projects.
As I am talking to you now, it is on record that Benue state government has taken a loan of over N70bn since Ortom assumed office. Two, three tranches of bailout funds have been dished out to Benue state government , over N20bn Paris London refunds was given to Benue state. Coupled with that, it gets its statutory allocation from the federation account and no matter how small, we generate internal revenue. Yet, the governor cannot pay salaries and has not executed any project.
The Benue state government keeps complaining about ghost workers and I begin to wonder, two years plus into an administration, you are still verifying the number of workers that you have on your payroll? Two years after, you are still talking about ghost workers, so, who are these ghost workers? And which officials are paying them?
The governor is crying wolf where none exists because we have it on good authorities that salary vouchers are padded, month in month out. All we want is that, he has become governor of Benue state and he should solve our problems. Nobody forced him to contest for the governor. So, he has become governor and the challenge before him is how to make Benue state better. As I am talking to you now, Benue state is getting worse everyday and people are hurting.
Are these criticisms part of your campaign to become governor in 2019?
Well, I don’t see anything bad about wanting to become governor. I don’t also see anything that is bad about criticising the governor because I want him to know what he is doing is wrong and to correct him.
I am criticising the governor on the issues that are there for everybody to see. We have asked consistently, how much is the wage bill of Benue state? And up till this moment, the governor has not been able to tell Benue people and Nigerians. I have consistently asked the governor this question as at the time he took over from Gabriel Suswan. He is doing everything in secrecy, nobody knows and we are saying you have taken loans, you have taken allocations from federation account, you have taken bailouts, you have taken Paris/London club refunds, we have internally generated revenue, don’t we as a people have a right to know how much you are owing workers? Where are the workers? How much have you generated for Benue state since you assumed office? How much is the salary bill? Why are you not paying salaries? What have you done with our money?
Other states like Kano, publish virtually every month, the income and expenditure profile of the state. If you say we are criticising for the sake of criticising, tell us these answers so that we can stop criticising you, so that we can stop complaining, we are complaining because we are hurting.
Those of us who are a little above average in Benue state, are bearing the brunt. Everyday, people come to ask for money to even feed. Everyday parents of children in schools come to ask for school fees. Everyday, people die of common ailments because they cannot afford hospital bills.
The anti-grazing law has put Benue state on the spotlight. While some people have criticized it, others argued that it is the panacea for the incessant farmers/herders clash in the state. What is your opinion?
Let me tell you, because if I say no now, you will say I criticise Ortom because I want to be governor. Quite frankly, I would love to be governor of Benue state but I am not contesting to take over from Ortom. That’s the truth! Of course, when Immigration issues came up, they said I was raising money to go and contest for the governor. I didn’t do that.
Now, I am talking, complaining about Benue people that are hurting, they say I am criticising Ortom because I want to be governor of Benue state. No!
Let me tell you that the anti-grazing law is good. I was one of those persons that insisted that the bill must be passed by the House of Assembly and that the governor must assent to it to become law because at a point, the Fulani herdsmen were moving around our people with careless abandon and nobody rose in defense of our people. And at a certain point, the government of Benue state, through its proxy, chairman of Agatu local government signed an agreement with the Fulani herdsmen, paving way for them to graze their cattle in certain parts in Benue state, specifically Agatu local government and we rose against it. I rose against it and I insisted that it was the betrayal of the people.
Now, the governor for the first time listened to our cries and the cries of the people and decided to provide the solution by enacting the anti-open grazing law in Benue state. The Fulanis and the farmers have lived together for a long time, the activities appeared not to have impeded the activities of each other but in recent times, it has become obvious that the activities of Fulani herdsmen have become a bit of problem to the ordinary farmer in Benue state.
So, the agitations for some levels of control became imperative in trying to provide for the farmers in Benue state and in trying to control the activities of Fulani herdsmen as they affect the lives of ordinary person. Some thoughts should have been given also to the lives of Fulani herdsmen because they have lived in Benue; for some of them, they don’t have another home. You say ranching but an enabling environment should have been provided for ranching, that’s number one.
Two, sufficient time should have been given for ranching or ranches to be built because you don’t wake up from the wrong side of the bed and say look, stop open grazing, go and put your cows in ranches. Where are the ranches? I am not asking government to provide the ranches but like I was saying, if rearing cattle is one business that the Fulani man does, and the atmosphere or condition is no longer favourable towards doing it, if the Fulani man is given six months, given one year, he cannot build ranches to control the cows, then he would be thinking of alternative business. He could sell off the cows and go into another business or he could build ranches.
As it is now, the timeline between the passage of the bill and the assenting to the bill to make it law in Benue state and the time that has been given to Fulanis to either put their cows in ranches or be penalised is not enough. I think that time has made the implementation of the law a little bit difficult.
Having been rejected in the 2015 elections, can PDP reclaim Benue state?
Benue state is a PDP state. Benue state is dominantly a PDP state. Let’s not forget about that. Even, the governor himself and majority of the people in APC now are PDP people. So, Benue state has always been a PDP state. I think that the people at the helm of PDP in Benue state made some fundamental errors which allowed opposition party, the APC to come to power.
In 2015, PDP was very very vulnerable because it had been in power in Benue state for 16 years. And so, when the APC came with mantra of change, there was exitement in the air because the ordinary meaning of change was that things were going to get better.
So, very many persons in APC who left PDP for APC are coming back home. Very many persons who have never been party members before but who have now become excited because of happenings around Benue state and Nigeria are also joining the PDP.
On Sunday, on the 12th of November, I personally witnessed the movement of the APC members, former caretaker chairman, former advisers to the governor, former assistants to the governor and new members came to join the PDP. By next week, we are going to another local government to bring in our brothers who have the same thing.
What is your expectation of the coming National Convention, in order to avoid another round of crisis in PDP?
Well, as a party man, I would ordinarily work towards ensuring a very successful, improved party convention and I can tell you that from the beginning of 2015, when the PDP lost election, I have been in one committee or the order that have been meeting to rehabilitate, reposition, restructure the party for an enhanced performance.
I was in the Ekweremadu committee and we made some sincere recommendations. I was in Jerry Gana’s committee and we also made our own recommendations. All these recommendations revolve around improved, deepening democracy and they are all embedded in our recommendations and National Executive Council has since adopted them.
One of the major recommendations is rejection of impunity. Impunity is a euphemism for imposing candidates on the electorates and we said that, that was great impediment to our success in 2015 and therefore, going forward, the party needs leaders, and must ensure that we don’t impose candidates on electorates. The National Chairman for instance, should be elected by the people.
The will of the people must prevail. And I insist that any attempt by any party man or party groups, no matter highly placed, to impose a candidate on the party, at the national convention definitely will spell doom for the party.
I pray that we learn from our mistakes in the past, particularly the mistake of imposition or impunity and allow the will of the people to prevail at the national convention. If we do that, which we are working towards, I can tell you that PDP is going to come out of that convention stronger.
