At every opportunity, Acting President Yemi Osinbajo has been sounding it loud and clear that Nigeria is insoluble and the country’s unity is not negotiable. However, in the interview with IBRAHEEM MUSA, spokesman of Northern Elders’ Forum(NEF) and former Vice Chancellor of Ahmadu Bello University(ABU) Zaria, Professor Ango Abdullahi disagrees with Osinbajo and all proponents of One Nigeria.
Recently, leader of the Movement for the Actualisation of Sovereign State of Biafra(MASSOB), Chief Ralph Uwazuruike visited you in company of the former Chief Security Offi cer of the late Head of State, General Sani Abacha, Major Hamza Al Mustapha and you met behind closed doors. What did you discuss?
No, we did not meet behind closed doors.
It was an unscheduled, unexpected visit and they found me in company of very many people. And we didn’t retire into any closed door discussions. Th ey told me their mission and I responded accordingly. So, it was not something that had been planned. I understand that they had a meeting which was coordinated by Major Hamza Al Mustapha in Kaduna. And at the end of their meeting, I’m sure they issued to you journalists a communiqué. It was after that meeting that someone decided, I don’t know whether it was Al Mustapha or someone else, that they should come to Zaria and pay a courtesy call, according to them, on me. Al Mustapha introduced them and told me of the genesis of their meeting in Kaduna. And they thought it appropriate to also come to Zaria and see me.
It was based on what they said that they discussed in Kaduna and I responded to the issues raised. Basically, it was an attempt to fi nd a solution to the issues now at stake. Some of Al Mustapha’s friends in Igboland must have reached out to him about the relationship between the North, as it were and the Igbos of the South East, which culminated from what Nnamdi Kanu started. And the reaction of our youths here regarding what Kanu and Co are trying to achieve.
So, I extrapolated what their mission was to me; was it the demand for Biafra or was it to discuss the reaction of our Northern youths? Finally, they said that their visit is an attempt to bring about a better understanding and peace between the Igbos or the South East and the North. Well, I said this is a long standing matter and this kind of short meeting cannot possibly try to address the remote and more recent causes of what may appear to be a stand off between our youths and the Igbos who are demanding to leave Nigeria and to have their own sovereign state under the principle of Self Determination; which is an accepted convention of the United Nations. I said that, I
believe in people asking for self determination. And if there is anything that I can personally do to help them achieve it, I will be quite happy to do so. Th is is the basis on which I supported our youth’s quit notice, who have also tried to help them to achieve Sovereign State of Biafra.
What was the response of the MASSOB leader when you said that you support Biafra?
When Uwazurike was responding, he said that Kanu was not speaking for them. But I couldn’t believe him since it was he who created the facilities for Kanu to be transmitting all his messages, not only to us in Nigeria but across the world, that Igbos are tired of being in Nigeria. And looking at the history, Uwazurike was successor to Ojukwu and we have not seen any evidence before the recent pronouncement, that he objected to the activities of Kanu and his gang, given the activities of MASSOB itself.
Th ey have also been very active in recent months and they have been clashing with security offi cials in their various protests. To me, perhaps they are just trying to test the waters as to what the North can concede to the Igbos. I don’t know what they were hoping the North will give them, by talking the position that they have taken in recent years.
The support that you gave the Coalition of Northern Groups which gave Igbos a three month quit notice to leave the North on October 1st was criticized in some quarters. Some people said that as an elder statesman, you should help in calming nerves and not further rock the boat. What is your explanation for your support for the Northern Youths?
Well, I think that argument is self serving stupidity on the part of those who called on me to calm nerves. Th e fi rst thing they should have done, if they were speaking for the North, was to reach out to their counter parts in the other part of the country. Th ey should have asked why their youths are abusing us everyday and doing all sorts of things that are in confl ict even with the constitution of this country. Th ey have not done that; I’m referring here to governors of the Northern States, who came out in open condemnation of these youths who were reacting to a provocation!
Th ey have the Nigerian Governors’ Forum and the Northern Governors’ Forum and they should have been in a position to monitor a lot of the things that Kanu and MASSOB were doing. But they have not raised a fi nger to defend the North in terms of the abuse that are coming from these sources. Th ey didn’t even caution or advise their colleagues in the South East to tell their youths to stop abusing us.
But when our own youths decided that they should defend their territory, their parents and gand parents, the Governors came out in condemnation. Th at was why I reacted the way I did by supporting the Northern Youths. I think it is irresponsible on their part for them not to have properly looked into the cause before condemning our youths. But they haven’t done so. So, the Governors were really encouraging this tirades against the North, from a source that is hostile and condemning our youths who are trying to defend themselves. So, I completely reject the notion that I should have calmed nerves, when their duty, before mine, is to draw the attention of their colleagues, who are behind MASSOB and Kanu. Th e fact remains that no elder in South East that I know, including the former Vice president of this country, and some former Ministers during the Balewa administration, have come out to condemn them. So, for me to have supported my own youths, somebody is accusing me of not behaving in an elderly, statemanly manner, is totally unacceptable and in fact, I reject it as irresponsible.
But did you give support to the quit notice in your personal capacity as Professor Ango Abdullahi or as Spokesman of Northern Elders’ Forum? I ask this question because Mr Paul Unongo, a chieftain of NEF has dissociated the forum from that support that you gave the Northern Youths. Yes, this is true.
Th e fact that I am the Spokesman of the Northern Elders’ Forum does not deny me the fundamental right of expressing myself. Even if what I express is not agreeable to Northern Elders’ Forum as a group or to an individual in the forum. Here, I can assure you that the Northern Elders’ Forum as a group, was in complete support of what I have said. And Paul Unongo, I have told him to his face, that, yes we are friends and we have been working together and so on, but that doesn’t mean that our views will always be the same. Your views are yours and mine are mine. And on this particular issue, I accept that Ango Abdullahi is on his own and it is totally within my rights to express these views. But from all the reactions that we have received so far, this view is supported by virtually every member of the Northern Elders’ Forum, perhaps except Paul Unongo. There is now a heightened clamour
for restructuring the country and many people have defi ned the term diff erently. What is your view about restructuring the country?
Will it make for a better nation as it is widely bandied? Th ere is no standard defi nition of restructuring that even you as a journalist can decipher. All the restructuring opinion that have been coming from individuals and groups are to me, some of these numerous political gimmicks that manifested some 20 to 30 years ago, as the National Question. It is all part of it. Th e National Question means that there are many issues that are unresolved in Nigeria, in terms of how the diverse ethnic groups, with diff erent historical backgrounds, antecedents and so on, who have been mistakenly, according to Professor Ben Nwabueze, put together by the Decree Amalgamating the Northern and Southern Protectorates.
Th at’s their position; that Lugard’s Amalgamation was a mistake. And if one can look at restructuring from that point of view, I support that we should go and correct the mistake of Lugard. Nigeria is not God’s creation; it is Lugard’s creation. Lugard was a Colonial adventurer who came and conquered us. It was not God that sent him to come and conquer Nigeria. And it wasn’t God that asked him to structure Nigeria they way that he did. So, lets take the amalgamation as man’s action and in this case, Lugard’s action and he did it forhis own reasons to exploit the territory that they conquered and he forced us together. He didn’t consult anybody before he amalgamated the North and South. So, if that was the basic mistake that he made, I support the restructuring to start from there. Th en, Southern Protectorate should go and sort out its problems. And the North should take care of its own problems, in terms of whether there will be enough understanding that the North should stay together.
Or whether certain sections of the North will go their separate ways because it was a mistake that they were lumped with the North and so on. If we cannot go back to 1914 in our bid to restructure the country, lets stay with the 1960 arrangement, where we had regions that were almost autonomous. We had a weak central government and the regions were so strong. If we want restructuring to begin from there, why not? But anything outside that is merely time wasting, it is diversionary. Th is is a country that has had about fi ve to six constitutional conferences after 1960. All these conferences were convened because our federation is not perfect but there is no perfect federation in terms of how a country is governed and so on.
Britain is one of the oldest democracies in the world but Scotland that has been associated with England for the last 350 years, went into a referendum, trying to have a country of its own. Th ere is also the problem of Northern Ireland. I have never seen anything absurd as insisting that this country is indivisible. Well, its man’s creation and not God’s creation. We sat down and decided that we want to live together, even after the amalgamation. When people decide to marry, whether in a church or mosque, the intention of every marriage is to last forever, till death do the couple part. But we know for a fact, it a reality, that marriages are dissolved; divorces occur. So, if the kind of marriage that has been contracted for Nigeria is not workable, why don’t we pronounce a divorce and go our diff erent ways in peace? Divorced couple can still relate with each other in peace. Soviet Union was one country but today there are about eight or nine countries out of the former country. India started as one country but today there is Pakistan and Bangladesh.
So, why should some Nigerians insist that we have to live as one country? When we know for a fact that our behavior and our conduct within the so called one country has not produced anything other than lack of development? For close to 60 years, this country has not developed because of the way we live, the way we behave and the way we disrespect even the constitution that we have drawn up and so on. Instead of doing that, the military kept splitting the country into more units; instead of a country where people are getting closer and closer, the creation of so many states from three regions to 36 states have separated the people even more. In the Northern region of old, one can move from Kaduna to Kano to look for a job. Now, one cannot.
Th e Igbos from Enugu could go to Abia and anywhere from the East and get a job, now the Abia indigene cannot even live in peace in Ebonyi state.
Many readers will be surprised by your support for restructuring because the general notion is that Northerners are against restructuring. Is this view that you have canvassed an opinion of Professor Ango Abdullahi or the Northern Elders’ Forum? First and foremost, what do you mean by restructuring?
Th is is the question that we keep asking because we know for a fact that this country has had so many constitutional conferences.
We altered the constitution that we have inherited, changed the constitution that we made so many times, we have adopted the presidential system. Th ere are a lot of things which people are unhappy about in Nigeria. Th ey should channel these grievances to their representatives for discussion in the chambers that are responsible for creating our laws. To me really, the agitation for restructuring is nothing other than crass politics. Th ey have not hidden the fact that the North is responsible for the so called imbalance in this country.
Some of them have even gone to the ridiculous extent of saying that the real cause of the imbalance is the Hausa/Fulani. So, these are all the manipulations and pretensions that are going on. My conclusion from all these is that these people don’t want us the way we are living in Nigeria. If they don’t want our union and they prefer something like Biafra or Oduduwa State or whatever it is, let them be. I’m of the belief that Nigeria is a creation of human beings and when people can’t co-habit peacefully, they should go their separate ways.
The Northern Elders’ Forum supported General Muhammadu to become president. After spending two years in offi ce, are you prepared to support him again in 2019? You people have not been following very correctly, our activities. From the beginning in2011, when this controversy about power shift came into limelight, we were very clear. Our agitation began when it was absolutely clear that the North was being short changed in terms of the gentleman’s agreement that was entered in the PDP, that power will be shared between the North and South.
And the South took the fi rst shot when we supported Obasanjo during his fi rst term and second term. And the North was to take its turn and this was an arrangement that was put in place by the PDP and I happen to be one of the founders of the party and one of those who wrote its manifesto. Chief Olusegun Obasanjo did his eight years and Umaru Yar’adua came on board as a northerner and spent three years and died. Under the constitution, his deputy will fi nish the remaining one year.
But will it require a request for the party to realize that the next four years require a Nigerian President of Northern extraction? But they denied it and came up with all sorts of insulting arguments. At that point, we began to see clearly that there was an agenda against the North when Jonathan insisted that he wanted to re-contest for election in 2015. Th at was why we veered off from the ACF and formed the Northern Elders’ Forum purely for political activism, solely to protect the interest of Northern Nigeria.
Th at was what we did. And when we were embarking on this struggle, we didn’t do it on any party platform or on the basis of any candidate. We only supported the party of Northern Nigeria; the people of the North were our party. We said that the party that we will support will be the candidate that will give a candidate of Northern extraction its ticket. Up till the time that Buhari got his nomination at the primaries, we didn’t call his name. We know he didn’t like it but we didn’t call his name.
And when PDP insisted on Jonathan, we knew that that wasn’t our party. Because APC fi elded a Northerner as presidential candidate, that was why by implication, we supported the party. Otherwise, we have no specifi c party and candidate. But we supported Buhari as a Northerner and won the election. Over two years after you have succeeded in winning the election, are you saying that Northern Elders’ Forum got what it envisaged from the Buhari presidency for the North?
Yes we got what we envisaged because we said that the North should produce the Nigerian president and we got it. What you probably are asking is whether the eff orts have paid dividends as far as the North is concerned. I will not answer this question now, for the simple reason that the president that we elected is not on seat for now. He is on sick leave. So, we are waiting for him to be fully recovered, God willing, and to come back to the country. Th en we will be more open in our assessment of what his government has done or has not done, as far as we are concerned and our aspirations for the North go.
At this point we will continue to pray for General Buhari’s recovery and for him to come back and continue to do his job as president of Nigeria. And at some point, we should be able to sit down and critically our examine the eff orts in the actualization of a president of Northern extraction, whether or not it has been worthwhile. As an elder statesman, you are privy to certain information. How sick is our president? I am not a doctor and even if I am a doctor, I am not Buhari’s doctor.
And even if I am Buhari’s doctor, the ethics of the profession does not allow me to disclose the condition of my patient. So, on all these three counts, I cannot provide an answer to this question. Are you satisfi ed so far with Professor Yemi Osinbajo’s actions as Acting President? Well, Osinbajo is an extension of Buhari’s presidency. Buhari is sick and Osibanjo is acting in the absence of Buhari. So, you cannot say for sure that the government has broken into two fractions; one fraction for Buhari and the other for Osinbajo. We haven’t gotten there.
But he is a very nice man. I have met him twice, fi rst when he invited us elders after this Biafra/quit notice problem. I had another meeting with him when he came for the condolence of the late Yusuf Maitama Sule in Kano. What did you discuss with him at the fi rst meeting? Of course the only reason why I was before him was because of the Biafra/ quit notice issue. He underscored how he needed the intervention of all stakeholders to keep Nigeria together.
Th at was his wish. And this is what is expected of a President or Acting President. Nobody wants to see the country disintegrate in his hands. So, he was passionately appealing, emphasizing the reasons why this country needs to be together. But I was quite honest in my contribution and I said that I support Biafra and that was why I supported our youths who want to help Igbos have a Biafra State.
